Last Call for “Man’s Underworld”

Next Wednesday, on November 27th Batman: The Brave & The Bold #19 comes out. It features the first part of “Man’s Underworld” a team-up story starring Plastic Man and Wonder Woman. Written by me, Art by Nikola Čižmešija, Colors by Rex Lokus, Letters by Steve Wands, and Edits by the team of Ben Meares and James Reid. Main Cover by Simone Di Meo. Variant Covers by Riley Rossmo, Stevan Subic, and one by McFarlane Toys I found out about recently.

This has been something I have been looking forward to for a long time. As previously mentioned, I have had a powerful desire to write Plastic Man since I left DC back in March of 2021, and I am thrilled the Batman: The Brave & The Bold editors gave me the opportunity to write the character. And I’d be lying if I played it cool and didn’t say that I hope it’s a take on the character that goes over really well with readers and fans alike and possibly leads to me getting to write him again. The story also gave me the chance to write Wonder Woman, one of the best superheroes of all time, and a character I loved working on as an editor. I was nervous to write her but I was thrilled with how that turned out too.

And…Nikola Čižmêšija is an incredible comic artist who I like a great deal as a professional and a person. He did great work here, and I want the world to see it. I’d love to work with him again, and if this story does well, that’s more likely to happen too. The same goes for colorist Rex Lokus and letterer Steve Wands.

I’ve given you all the sales pitch on the story, we did a great interview with Nikola, and I have talked a lot about the influences of the story. Now I just need to trust that people are going to read the story. But…a big-hearted “Please take a chance on this thing I worked on” has rarely failed me before, and as long it comes from a genuine place, which it does, I figured this was okay. Go buy it, read it, and let me know if you like it. And if you do like it, tell someone else who likes comics so they give it a read too.

Take a look at the first two pages of the story here with lettering! Thanks to DC for letting me share this preview. Also…Batman: The Brave & The Bold #20, which features the conclusion of the story, and is the last issue of the series, FOC’s this Monday on 11/25, put an order in for that too, we’d really appreciate it!

But my story isn’t the only one in Batman: The Brave & The Bold #19. There are three other terrific stories in the issue. “The Hum” by Zac Thompson, Stefano Raffaele, Lee Loughridge, and Troy Peteri. “Leftovers” by Rich Douek, Stevan Subic, Marcelo Maiolo, and Becca Carey. And then the wonderful Michael Conrad, Christopher Mitten, Ivan Plascencia, and Becca Carey have a story called “Hivemind Part 1”. I got to interview Zac and Rich about their stories. I emailed Michael too late, which is on me, but he really wanted to do the interview and hopefully, I’ll get to talk to him again next year. But I can tell you right now, his story RULES too. As does the fifth story in the book “Robin Season Part 2” by Brendan May, Marco Santucci, Luis Guerrero, and Carlos M. Mangual, I haven’t met Brendan yet but I hope to change that soon, Robin Season is also awesome. Now, here are the interviews with Zac and Rich!

An Interview with Zac Thompson

DAVE: Zac, I want to kick things off for our readers with a couple of stats. “The Hum”, your story with artist Stefano Raffaele, colorist Lee Loughridge, and letterer Troy Peteri, running in Batman: The Brave & The Bold #19, is your fourth Batman short story, and it also marks the second time you and I have been bookmates (more professionally put, contributors) in the same DC anthology book. The last time was in DC’s Legion of Bloom. I like those numbers. 

ZAC: You and me both! Wild that it’s happened twice. But I’m thrilled by those stats.

 DAVE: Batman: The Brave & The Bold historically has been a title where two unlikely characters team up to solve a problem, Batman usually being one of those two characters. In “The Hum” you have Batman team up with one of his greatest villains, and one of my favorites, Jonathan Crane A.K.A The Scarecrow to track down the sources of a low-frequency noise that has led the people of Gotham City to riot.

 Did the editors come to you and say “We would love to see you do a story with Batman and Scarecrow?” or was it a more open-ended assignment?

 ZAC: It was a more open-ended assignment. My editor, Ben Meares, and I were kicking around some different ideas. The original prompt was to pair Batman with a really unlikely hero. For a while we were thinking of Ragman and doing something in the slums of Gotham. But we couldn’t get it to come together for various reasons. I pitched Ben the idea of a pervasive “fear sound” driving Gotham insane. Then we built from there in this way where it was like… oh, Scarecrow would be an interesting lens to look at this from. What if Batman had to team up with one of his greatest villains to solve this case? It all sorta clicked together from that moment.

 DAVE: Oh man…I love this story but now I want to read your Ragman. My alternate team-ups were “Plastic Man & Clayface”, “Plastic Man, Batman, & Aquaman” and “Plastic Man & Martian Manhunter”, but I’m thrilled the editors picked “Plastic Man & Wonder Woman” of the pitches I submitted.  

 One thing I am always taken aback by in your stories, and this is true of your four Batman stories and your creator-owned work, is everything you do feels so visceral and elemental. And by that, I mean…the threats your characters face have often caused some kind of damage that has changed how their environment looks. In this case, with Gotham City, the city is ablaze, and everyone is moving/fighting/panicking. Is that something you’re mindful of as you create the stories you tell? I really like how it makes the threats so much more palpable to the reader.

 ZAC: Yeah! Thank you for pointing that out. It’s something that I’m really cognizant of when I’m putting a story together. There’s this deep emotional core that’s pushing everything forward but it's balanced against this huge, dangerous threat that is slowly coming to a boil. I like putting Batman in these hopeless situations and watching him fight (and think) his way out. Since Batman is born from this visceral emotional place - it only makes sense to test him in these ways.

 DAVE: That makes a ton of sense to me. I’ve written Scarecrow before in Man-Bat and earlier this year I talked to writer Rachel Pinnelas, who wrote a wonderful story with the character in DC’s I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST CRISIS, which came out a few months back, I love the character. I think he’s a total creep who loves invading other people’s fears and experiences, almost in a David Fincher villain voyeuristic way. How do you see the character and how did you get into his mind/perspective as a writer?

 ZAC: I see him as this Hannibal Lecter type. Which is very much what we’re scratching at with this story. In my mind, Crane needs to control other people. He’s deeply concerned with being the smartest person in the room and he’s a master manipulator. For me, Scarecrow is this dark mirror of Batman. They both use fear but towards very different means. I find that fascinating. It doesn’t often come up but I’ve got a degree in psychology and was studying for my Masters in clinical psychology when I dropped out to pursue writing. So I see Crane as this intellectual who originally came at his fascinations through legitimate means. There’s a legitimate tension in psychology where we need to study human behavior under extreme conditions in order to understand trauma, fear, and psychosis but ethically you can’t subject people to those conditions. Crane left his ethics behind a long time ago. He gave into that urge to understand people under extreme duress. So I see him as this primal force of curiosity. Always watching, always prodding, always looking to provoke a reaction. I love that about him. Even if he’s a complete psychopath.

 DAVE: That’s a terrific answer and I am always going to hold on to the phrase “primal force of curiosity.” This is your fourth go-around with Batman, as I mentioned earlier, and I think you have a wonderful take on the character. Your Batman reads very much like the smart, no-nonsense, investigator from comics like the Legends of the Dark Knight stories of the 90s. We all have different favorite Batman stories from comics, movies, and other media. What Batman stories/takes were influential to your interpretation of the character?

 ZAC: I return to those Legends of the Dark Knight stories a lot. They are my compass in a lot of ways. I’m really drawn to the investigator/detective angle of Batman. Loads of LotDK stories come to mind as inspirations. Shaman, Venom, Blink. There’s also The Cult, Long Halloween, and of course Year One. I reread Year One every time I start a new Batman story. It’s grounding in this profound way because it cuts at what drives Batman for me.

 DAVE: Year One is a book I often return to as well, it always gets me excited for Batman again, but you’ve listed a ton of great stories here. Especially The Cult, I knew you’d be a Batman: The Cult guy, Zac!

 Talk to me about the art team on this issue. The story was drawn by the wonderful Stefano Raffaele, who I’ve only become aware of in the last few years, and colored by the legendary Lee Loughridge. Before your Batman art partners were Hayden Sherman and Ashley Wood, how was the collaborative process with Stefano and Lee, and was there a particular page or section of the story that turned out stronger/different than you imagined in a good way?

 ZAC: Oh man, working with Stefano and Lee was a dream. This script was really densely structured by the time it got to them. We didn’t have a lot of room for improvisation in the pages. So we knew The Hum really called for a lot of chaos. The story needed to feel congested and claustrophobic in a way that kept building on the tension of the central team-up. Luckily Stefano really evoked those feelings in his pages. Gotham is in ruin and everywhere you look in Stefano’s layouts there’s another little detail of chaos. His Scarecrow just sings here. With subtle facial expressions that come through the mask. That’s not easy! I think the sequence that really exceeded my expectations is the showdown with the knife-wielding maniac in the streets. Stefano choreographed the action beautifully. But really let Scarecrow command that scene. There’s this huge panel of Scarecrow’s face where Lee honed in on his eyes in this way that looks mesmerizing. You’re lured in by him. I just love it.

 DAVE: Okay, I’ve got two questions left for you and we’re going to get a little hypothetical. I have no doubt that you have a longer Batman story in you, and you’re going to get to do it and it will be AWESOME. But as I have expressed to you earlier, I also want you to do like eight more Batman short stories so we can get a whole Batman short story collection from you. What would you call that hypothetical Batman short story collection? “Batman: ???”.

 ZAC: Oh man, this is the dream. I think I’d have to go with Batman: Grotesqueries.

 DAVE: Great title! In addition to writing comics you now run and program movies at an independent movie theater near where you live. If someone wanted to watch a movie immediately after reading “The Hum” what movie would you pair with it?

 ZAC: I love this question! Yeah, I’m the Executive Director of the Charlottetown Film Society. So I program the films for the only indie cinema on my tiny island. It’s not entirely tonally similar but I would pair it with Francis Ford Coppola’s The Conversation. It’s a movie about the nature of sound and our interpretation of it. It’s one of the best paranoid thrillers ever made.

 DAVE: I love Gene Hackman so much, so The Conversation is a big movie for me, excellent choice!

 Zac, thank you so much for doing this! Batman: The Brave & The Bold #19 is on sale 11/27/24. In addition to that book, you have the following kick-ass writing projects going on right now:

● The one-shot Alien: Romulus with art by Daniel Picciotto that came out from Marvel Comics this past October.

● The Body Trade mini-series with art by Jok coming out from Madcave.

● Cemetery Kids Don’t Die Vol. 1 with art by Daniel Irizarri comes out from Oni Press on December 3^rd, 2024.

● The Blow Away TPB with art by Nicola Izzo comes out from Boom! Studios on January 22^nd, 2025.

● Into The Unbeing: Part One TPB with art by the aforementioned Hayden Sherman is on sale from Dark Horse on January 28^th, 2025, and the Into The Unbeing: Part Two mini-series starts on February 12^th, 2025. 

Anything we’re missing, and where should folks be following you so they can keep up with these icredible projects?

ZAC: That’s everything! I’ve been a busy dude. You can keep up with my various projects by following me on bluesky or instagram.

DAVE: Outstanding! Thanks again, Zac! Looking forward to talking again soon, and hopefully we’ll be bookmates again in the future.

ZAC: Thank you so much, Dave. This was a blast!

An Interview with Rich Douek

DAVE: Rich, I am excited about this interview for two reasons. First, you have been an incredibly prolific comic book writer these last few years, but we don’t know each other at all so this is a great chance for us to get to know one another. And second, Mr. Zsasz, the villain of your terrific Batman: The Brave & The Bold #19 story with Stevan Subic is one of the Batman villains I know least about, as a reader, and from my almost ten years as a Batman editor. So welcome to you and Mr. Zsasz!

 RICH: Thanks so much, Dave! I’ve also been admiring your work from afar, over the past couple of years. I don’t make it out to a ton of cons, so it’s not an insane thing that we’ve never crossed paths - but I’m also really excited to chat and get to know you a bit, and honored to be sharing bylines in the same book (and what a book!)

 DAVE: I agree, Rich, I’ve been pinching myself that I am getting to contribute to a title as iconic as Batman: The Brave & The Bold, and thrilled to be doing it with such a great group of creators working on the other awesome stories!

 But starting with you, how long have you been writing comics professionally, and then where did the journey to writing comics start? Were you a big comic reader as a kid, did you discover them later in life, what’s the Rich Douek origin story?

 RICH: I’ve been writing professionally for about 8 years now, closer to 10-12 if you count the years I was learning and self-publishing short stories here and there to get some experience doing it. As to where the story starts, it’s definitely when I was a kid. I grew up when comics were still in the mass market, and my reward for letting my parents drag me around grocery shopping on the weekend was getting 5 bucks and some time to peruse the racks at my local candy store. I have deep and fond memories of just laying around on my floor late Saturday mornings with kung fu or Godzilla movies on the TV, and a short stack of comics to page through.

I fell out of regular reading when I got older, like my later high school and college years, but I remember one day being early to meet some friends down in Greenwich Village and wandering into Forbidden Planet to kill some time. Paging through the books, I couldn’t believe how far comics had come - not only were there a ton of new things going on with superheroes, but there were (also) all these insane new (to me) titles, like The Walking Dead, The Invisibles, and others. I tried a few out and was hooked all over again!

 DAVE: I never had a big break from comics in my life, but I admire people who did. Then you get the magic of falling in love with comics twice. I had a similar journey of getting comics at places that weren’t comic book stores, but when I was a teen, finding a good local comic store and, almost just as important, living near a terrific network of libraries that had an astonishing number of comics/graphic novels that I could reserve and would be sent to my local library. Every Saturday, I would get a stack of new comics from the comic store and a stack of classic graphic novels/comic series from the library to catch up on. It was an amazing time in my life.

 On the subject of new comics, Your Batman story in Batman: The Brave & The Bold #19 is an excellent, tight, well-plotted, incredibly clever thriller that finds Batman needing to save a group of survivors of Mr. Zsasz attacks from Mr. Zsasz himself. Even though my experience with Zsasz is limited I knew enough to go “Oh man, this story is perfect for this character.”

Have you always been a Batman reader/fan and was Mr. Zsasz a character that was near and dear to your heart?

 RICH: I have to admit I wasn’t super familiar with his early appearances at first - I’ve been a Batman fan since I was a kid, but Zsasz made his debut during my big lapse in reading. Still, ever since I first saw his design, I was captivated by him. I mean the tally marks are such a strong, terrifying design, and just the idea of him as this nihilistic killer who really at some level feels like he’s performing a service for his victims really appealed to me for some reason.

 Without spoiling the plot, the basic setup could have easily been a story featuring The Joker, or Two-Face, or any number of villains, but something about Zsasz, I don’t know. It was just the perfect fit for what I wanted to accomplish.

 DAVE: Stevan Subic, your artistic collaborator on this story, is one of the most exciting artists in the industry right now. I first noticed him on The Riddler: Year One which Stevan did with Paul Dano. 

 At what part of the process did Stevan become involved? Did the editors tell you he would likely be drawing the story so you envisioned this for him from the start, or did you come up with the story first, and then Stevan came along? Either way, the story was excellent for him, and I thought you two made a tremendous creative team.

 RICH: It’s really funny because I’ve been a huge fan of Stevan’s for a while now - I loved Riddler, and I thought his work on The Penguin was really strong too - but as this was my first Batman story, and maybe the third I’ve ever done for DC, I didn’t really consider in my wildest dreams that he would be on it - so as I was making a list of potential collaborators, I felt like it was almost aiming too high, if that makes sense.

But luckily, it wasn’t up to me, lol! About a week after I turned my script in, Ben wrote me back to say he loved it, and that Stevan had a rare opening in his schedule and he wanted to grab him. I think I replied in like 30 seconds with an emphatic yes!

 DAVE: That’s one of many things I want to give Ben, James, and all the editors I have worked with at DC, when it comes to art on these projects, they always swing for the fences and it’s often incredibly impressive who they get on board for these short stories. I include my awesome collaborator the great Nikola Čižmesîja in that group of artists.

 When I was a Batman editor, if someone was about to work on a Batman-related project for the first time, I would try to call them on the phone to share the news with them. It’s the closest I will ever get to telling someone they won the lottery, you just feel an intense level of joy when you share that news with someone. In addition to that I always told people that if we made a Batman story together that you didn’t want to tell everyone in your life about, I must have made a mistake somewhere as the editor.

 Are you happy with the end results of this story? If you had to go back in time and share this story with you at the beginning of your writing journey, would past Rich be stoked about it? 

 RICH: I really, truly am. I have made some great friends over the years in comics, and believe me, when I got the green light, I was texting and calling them left and right with how excited I was. And then when it got announced I was doing the same with my non-comics friends!

 But the coolest thing was probably telling my family. My kids are into all sorts of nerdy stuff, but Western comics haven’t quite hit with them - they’re way more into manga and stuff like that. Still though, when I told them I was writing Batman, I got a very rare “That’s cool!” from both of them, and that made me really happy and proud of myself.

 And I wouldn’t be able to fully feel that if this story had fallen short of my expectations, or not came out as awesome as I had it pictured in my head.

 DAVE: I love that! In addition to having our stories in the same book, we worked with the same editorial team of Ben Meares and James Reid. I had a dynamite experience with those guys and Batman group editor Rob Levin. All three of them gave me tremendous notes at each stage of the process and absolutely made my story better than it was at the start.

 What was your experience working with the editorial team?

 RICH: They were absolutely great! Both Ben and James were enthusiastic and supportive about the story, and as we moved along, the notes they gave were stellar. Coming from creator-owned books mainly, I don’t always get the experience of working with an editor, but the insights and suggestions they brought to the table not only made the story better, they really helped me, as a writer, get a handle on the difference between writing in the DCU and anywhere else.

 Rob is great too - he came on board when the story was mostly done, but his encouragement and enthusiasm about working together again was a great feeling - we’d previously gotten the chance to work together on a story I did for 3W/3M last year, so I was really happy to get the chance to do it again, and super chuffed when I learned he got the job!

 DAVE: They’re truly an outstanding crew of people. We’re lucky we got to work with them on this issue and I wish us both the great fortune of working with them again.

 Did you pitch multiple story ideas for this, and if so were they all Mr. Zsasz related or were there any alternate villains you had pitched stories with? No need to spoil plot-specific details in case you get to write any of those stories at a later date!

 RICH: This story actually came about in a funny kind of way. I’ve known Ben Abernathy, the former Exec Editor of DC, for a couple of years now, and we got to talking at SDCC a couple of years ago and I gave him a serious look and told him I had a big problem - I wanted to write Batman. We had a good laugh, but he told me to send him my best idea for a one-shot. Like, if I was only ever get one chance to do it, what would I write?

So I spent a long, hard time thinking about that before hitting send. I did, and do have a lot of ideas - but if I had just one shot? That’s a big question. I know I have a great Joker story in me. And a great Scarecrow one.  I know I have a great one featuring Anarky, of all people. But those all seemed like they would need more room than a one-shot, so I really had to think about it.

And I felt that in order to honor the ask, it had to be just one idea. The perfect one. And luckily, Ben agreed that it was!

 DAVE: Ben Abernathy used to be my boss, one of the best bosses I ever had as a matter of fact, and that story completely tracks with me. There are few more encouraging people in this business than him.

 All right, Rich, I’m going to ask you one goofy question before I let you go. In my first DC short story, I wrote the Batman villain Professor Pyg, who I adore immensely. If we co-wrote a comic where Mr. Zsasz and Professor Pyg faced off, which character would win, and would that match-up of villains be too intense for reading public to handle?

 RICH: Ha! That’s an interesting matchup! Things would get bloody for sure! I mean they’re both psychos with a penchant for carving people up into little pieces… the big difference is, Pyg likes to put them back together again, I guess, lol!

 As far as who would win, I guess I have to give the edge to Zsasz, based solely on how absolutely JACKED Stevan drew him, lol - he’s like a wall of muscle! But I think in the end you and I would be the real winners for getting the chance to work together and bring a story like that to life!

 DAVE: Phenomenal answers across the board, Rich, and maybe we just spoke the most insane comic DC Comics will ever publish into existence!

 Thanks so much for taking the time to do this, it was a blast!

A Month Away From My Signing

This holiday season I am heading back to the great state of Massachusetts where I grew up. And on December 21st from 1 PM -5 PM, I will be at one of the best comic book stores in the state, and dare I say one of the best comic book stores in New England, Comics N’ More in Easthampton, Massachusetts on 64 Cottage Street.

If you are in the area that day? Come on through, bring some comics you’d like me to sign, buy some comics at the store to support a great local comic book store, and hang out before the holidays. Do you want to talk to me about Plastic Man, Libra, The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Superman, The Celtics, movies, whatever? Hey, I’ll be there for you.

As I mentioned earlier, doing Los Angeles Comic Con for the first time as a creator and having an artist alley table there was life-affirming. Meeting so many fans, selling and signing so many comics, and doing something that physically made me feel like a comic writer was amazing for my soul. I am so excited to do my first-ever store signing at a great comic store near where I grew up. Hopefully, I’ll meet new readers, see old friends, and ring in some Holiday Cheer!

And hey, if you can’t make it out to the signing but still want to interact with me before the holidays? Don’t forget about the first annual Dave Wielgosz Holiday Q&A. On Thursday, December 5th, I will be running a Newsletter post where I answer your questions about the process of making comics, comics I have written, perhaps comics I have edited, various silly things, maybe a pop culture question or two, and nothing mean because everyone is going to be super nice to me. I will be taking questions at [email protected] until 11/29. And I will not run your name when I answer your question unless you ask me to. What you can not send me are pitches, scripts, and any mean stuff. I will delete all of that on sight.

So next week instead of doing one post for the week of Thanksgiving we are going to do two. We will have our normally scheduled Thursday post which will be on the shorter side. I’ll be talking about what I’m thankful for, showing a preview of Batman: The Brave & The Bold #20, and other stuff.

On Monday you’ll be getting a bonus post where I talk to the creators behind the comic and current Kickstarter project Death to Pachuco, Henry Barajas, and Rachel Merrill about their amazing project. Link here so you can support their amazing project in advance!

You’re going to be getting a lot more content than usual next week!

But more importantly?

Stay safe!

—Dave Wielgosz

P.S. Here’s that McFarlane Toy cover for Batman: The Brave & The Bold #19 I mentioned earlier.